>> announcer: today on an all-new "dr. phil" a dad accused of faking his own death. >> dr. phil: learned he was alive. >> planning a funeral for him? >> announcer: his son charged with conspiracy. >> dr. phil: you say there was a plan and you were in on it. >> forced into it. >> announcer: now the story. >> dr. phil: you made three different statements to the police. in is true. >> announcer: the story behind the headlines. >> dr. phil: did you help your father fake his death? >> dr. phil: let's do it. if we're going to do something here that matters, then we've got to deal with the truth. >> have a good show, everybody. here we go. >> dr. phil: if i can help get this family back on track, are you willing to do that? >> ready, three. take. >> dr. phil: this is going to be a changing day in your life. >> go, dr. phil! [cheers & applause] >> dr. phil: well, it seemed

like another devastating and unfortunate headline at first. a man goes for a swim in the long island sound and doesn't come home. his family suspects the worse and calls authorities. a massive search effort is launched and crews scramble to find the body of this husband and father who is believed to have drowned. things aren't always what they seem and this tragedy was about to take a shocking twist. take a look. >> police are searching for signs of a missing man that went for an ocean swim. police began the day acknowledging this is a recovery effort. >> everyone thought he was dead. drowned in long island beach. >> i was planning a funeral for him. he was my husband. >> it was a nightmare that i can't wake up from. >> dr. phil: after days of hoping, fear gave way to acceptance.

that is until a routine traffic stop in south carolina revealed something nobody was expecting. >> a shocking twist in the search for a missing swimmer. >> a frantic five-day search for a long island father lost at sea. >> he was never missing. >> officials privately questioned the story. >> i am angry of what he put the public through and myself and my family and his family thinking that he's dead. >> dr. phil: raymond had faked his death and vanished without a trace to florida. the question was why. as police investigated, they got their answer and a whole lot more. >> he had serious financial problems. he lost his job and put his house up for sale. >> we believed he was in the water. >> dr. phil: but a big question was raymond roth the only person

in on the fang drowning plot? >> raymond has yet to show his face. but it's his son, jonathan, that is in trouble with the law now. >> the younger roth made the story up and helped his father. >> conspiracy to commit fraud and false filing of a police report. i never tried to cash in. >> dr. phil: a lot of people want to talk to jonathan. he's here's here today. he will talk about the real story behind the shocking headlines. i have hard questions for him. first, i want to talk to the man representing his father raymond. i want to welcome criminal defense attorney brian davis. thanks for joining us. >> thank you, dr. phil. >> dr. phil: first thing, how is your client doing after he left the psychiatric hospital and where is he now? >> he's living with family. he's undergoing treatment on a

daily basis. he seems to be doing better. >> dr. phil: is raymond going to admit the idea was his and that his son had nothing to do with it? >> dr. phil, at this point he's not admitting anything. >> dr. phil: did he fake his own death? >> there's no question that my client left jones beach and went to florida and came back from florida five days later. >> dr. phil: what is it that drove him to this in your opinion? was he experiencing a mental illness, out of contact with reality? >> i wouldn't say out of contact with reality but certainly a mental illness. when he was five, he had a bad car accident. got hit by a car trick-or-treating. suffered brain damage at that time. i think it's affected him his entire life. a lot of his actions are impulsive. he lost his job the next day, put his house up for sale and the next thing he's planning to leave, escape. that's what he was doing, getting away from the bills, from the pressures, from his

wife and like he was going to go there and work -- this is a quote -- at a tiki bar or on a fishing boat. >> dr. phil: what is his relationship with his son, jonathan, at this stage of the game today? >> they haven't been talking since this occurred. >> dr. phil: i assume you're aware there's allegations on jonathan's part that he in fact was abused for a period of time by raymond. >> he denies that he used physical punishment, except for one time in jonathan's life when he was about 14. the two of them were described as being buddy-buddy. they smoked their cigars together, they would drink their beer together. and that it certainly wasn't an abusive relationship at any time. >> dr. phil: if he have asked whether or not jonathan was in on this plan, what will he say? >> there were e-mails sent from my client to jonathan before this. jonathan knew exactly what was going on. >> dr. phil: so he was

involved -- >> but nothing to do with insurance, dr. phil. >> dr. phil: i understand. i get what you're saying. raymond's son wasn't the only one that was affected. take a look at this. >> ivana was worried sick until she discovered a chain of e-mails allegedly between father and son. >> the e-mail account was opened and i looked in and i found e-mails that it was planned, that it was him not drowned. he was alive. he's a horrible person. he's an abuser in every which way. >> he does have psychiatric issues. >> they were talking about getting a divorce but it never happened. there were empty threats and they were fighting constantly. all yelling and screaming.

you kind of get numb to it after a while. >> dr. phil: then the question of raymond's son, jonathan's involvedment. the law for the 22-year-old say jonathan was abused and forced of going in on it. >> it's been scary, he is upset. he's really upset that his father drowned. >> dr. phil: raymond's son, jonathan, is here breaking his silence for the first time. he says he went along with his father's plan because he was afraid for his life. jonathan, i appreciate you being here along with your attorney, joey jackson. so chime in. is there something that you feel like we need to know? jonathan, look, i want to be real clear here. you don't deny you were involved in this. you acknowledge that a, there was a plan to fake his death and b, that you were involved in it, but you are saying that you were

coerced into being involved in it and you did it out of fear for your own safety. >> correct. >> dr. phil: you participated actively in perpetuating the story that you father had drowned. >> unwillingly. >> forced into it. >> dr. phil: how old are you? >> 22. >> dr. phil: do you live with your father? >> not anymore. but i did, yes. >> dr. phil: so you don't -- you're not supported by your father and you don't live with your father. >> right. >> dr. phil: so if he calls you with some hair-brained scheme, can't you hang up? >> no. see, during the time i did live with him and i was supported by him. right now i do not live with him. >> dr. phil: how did this happen? you're sitting there one day eating corn flakes in the morning and he comes in and says we're going to fake -- how did this happen? >> no. i was in new jersey at the time. >> dr. phil: right. >> and i came -- i came back from new jersey and he sat me down outside. he has a porch outside. he sat me down and he talked to

me outside. >> dr. phil: what did he say? >> he discussed with me about what my role was supposed to be, that i had to make sure that everybody knew that he was dead. >> dr. phil: okay. did you plan how you were going to do that? did he say you're going to the beach with me? >> he actually took me to field 6, jones beach. he said this is where we're going to do it. he pointed out a couple things. he says this is how you get here. >> dr. phil: and how long was this before it actually took place? >> about a week, dr. phil. >> dr. phil: about a week. because brian has described him as being very manicy at times, difficult. nobody could do anything with him. but you're saying this span add week. it sounds to me like it was thoughtful and planned and manic phases don't typically last that long. >> i don't know anything about a manic phase or anything like that. >> dr. phil: was your father unusual? he was hyper, racing around,

jumping around, speaking rapidly, changing the subject a lot? >> no. he was his regular self. >> dr. phil: remember self. this is what america wants to know. did you help your father fake his death? >> announcer: tomorrow on an all-new "dr. phil." everyone knows the robert blake murder trial. >> dr. phil: did you kill your wife? >> of course not. a weird thing for you to ask. >> announcer: in an exclusive interview. >> dr. phil: do you think you're crazy? >> announcer: dr. phil goes inside the home. >> this wall is part of keeping myself safe. >> announcer: and inside the mind of robert blake. >> dr. phil: if this is the last interview you ever do, what is the last thing you want to say? >> announcer: then on friday. >> dr. phil: you believe that your son's death was not an accident. >> announcer: a shocking twist to a bizarre

>> the first time i heard about my father's plan to fake his death was the saturday before. i was afraid. i was nervous. i was shaking a little bit, panicky. he told me if i didn't help him, i would die. and anybody i told about the plan would die as well. >> i don't think he told anybody else. >> he had six rifles, a crossbow, pistol. i have no doubt he would have killed me. >> jonathan roth was manipulated

by his father in ever way way. >> jonathan can't be guilty for something he didn't have a choice in. >> it will be crystal clear who is at fault here. that man is raymond roth. >> dr. phil: this is what america wants to know. did you help your father fake his death? >> i was forced into helping him fake his death. >> dr. phil: so you say yes only because you were coerced. what would happen if you said no? >> he said i would die and anybody i told would die. >> dr. phil: he threatened to kill you. >> yes. and anyone else i told about the scheme. >> dr. phil: okay. >> he has a cache of weapons. he had his pistol taken away from the police. >> dr. phil: so you thought he might kill you. >> yes. >> dr. phil: so he stayed by your side 24/7 from the time he told you -- >> in the same relative area. we were in the same house --

>> dr. phil: the question is, why didn't you call the police? >> i was afraid. i lived in the same house with him. i was afraid if the police showed up what he could do to me. deny it and the police go away? the police can't really do anything until an action happens, right? >> dr. phil: i'm not a criminal attorney -- >> i don't know either. >> dr. phil: joey, go ahead. >> first of all, the attorney tried to say he had an accident when he was five years old. that's nonsense. this case is nothing else but about the abuse, the manipulation and the coercion of his fear period. for the lawyer to suggest he knows anything about it and he was mentally defective and checked himself in, it's nonsense. to roll his son under the bus is astonishing. he knew exactly what he was doing, what he was putting his

son up to do and it's unfair and inappropriate. the fact that jonathan can sit here as a man, it's a blessing. >> dr. phil: you heard what your near's attorney said. >> yes. >> dr. phil: he said there was not an abusive relationship. you were big bids, drunk beer and hung out together. he disciplined you a time or two. i'll let him speak in a minute. what do you say about it? >> the fact of the matter is, there was a very abusive relationship. not only was it physical but it was verbal and constant. not only every day and towards me but hostile towards his own wife. he once broke her nose because she tried to stop him from attacking. >> dr. phil: brian what do you want to say about this? >> the broken nose was an accident according to ivana. i have real problems with what

jonathan is saying here. i think, dr. phil, you pointed out, you're talking about a they weren't sleeping in the same bed. jonathan had free reign to leave that house and go where he wanted to go. once he knew his father was on his way down to florida, why he just didn't do the right thing and not report it at all? or report it and then come clean right away and say, i was forced to do it. i don't buy the whole story. >> this is part of the finger pointing that his attorney wants to do and has done every time he gets an opportunity. he even denies the fact there's been abuse. that abuse has been longstanding. do you deny, brian, there's been abuse of his son? it's occurred since he was 10 years old and occurred on an on going basis. you have to evaluate this in the con text of which it occurred. my client was continually beat up by his father, continually belittled. if you want to finger point, finger point your own client. plead him guilty and let him admit what he coerced and

manipulated his son into doing, period. [applause] >> there's a different story from my client's family that did everything they could to help a young boy who came into their family at age 9 -- >> is helping beating him up, is helping drinking -- >> dr. phil: hold on. >> tell the truth. that's what everybody wants to hear. if you're going to make statements, make them because you know them to be accurate and you know it to be accurate because we're going to show the records in court of your client drinking and abusing my client on a consistent basis and in breaking what you have to admit his wife's nose. okay? >> dr. phil: time out. i've let the lawyers talk. let me talk. i want to talk to you. >> dr. phil: you have been sitting here saying tell the truth. that's what people want to hear. >> i'm am. >> dr. phil: i'm asking him to

tell the truth. >> hold on. >> dr. phil: you guys have looked at the aurora shooting and thought, my god, that could be my son. >> she's schizophrenic. >> she's agitated. >> what is callie lini? >> i don't know. >> why did you investigate your future daughter-in-law? >> you have nothing on me. i have never been convicted of anything. >> this isn't your first marriage? >> this is my fifth. >> dr. phil: there should be red flags all over the place. >> i didn't want to come on here so you could embarrass me. you want to pick and pull out of things i've done wrong. >> dr. phil: don't tell me how to do my job. >> i did not get pregnant to be on tv. >> dr. phil: i do think you did it to get on a tv show. you need to grow up and you

>> raymond roth's attorney says father and son have a close relationship. >> they've been described as buddy buddy. they smoked cigars together, work out together, walk together, drink their beers together. >> it was just some sort of plan that they were doing together. >> the younger roth says he's an innocent victim of his father's plot. but police say he confessed admitting he knew that his father left the beach to flee to florida. >> dr. phil: what happened the day this all went down? what happened that day? >> when everything happened? >> dr. phil: the day he disappeared. >> i don't know.

am i -- >> he can't get into the facts of what occurred that day because he was facing criminal charges. >> dr. phil: but he didn't do anything except he was coerced to do. you want him to tell the truth. that's what people want to hear. >> hold on. all right. >> dr. phil: all right. is it -- >> there's a difference. there's a difference. you have to respect it. obviously if somebody is under investigation and somebody is facing criminal charges, the forum on which they have to speak, you have to be careful with that. >> dr. phil: you made three different statements to the police. which is true? >> i don't remember the statement word for word. but i was admitting that i knew about the scheme and that i was forced into going along. >> dr. phil: and you don't want to go into details, but you guys got up that morning, you planned this out. you had planned this out through the week, i assume. we do know he went to the beach and didn't come back. he went to florida. wenow that.

>> we do. >> dr. phil: and you then as a matter of public record, you started notifying -- you called the police and said he's gone, he's disappeared. you said i saw him chest high in the water and didn't see him after that. that's public record. >> yeah. >> dr. phil: so you can talk about that, right? >> and ultimately what he did do after he was arrested, he told the police exactly what happened, which is that it didn't happen and this is something that his father came to him to talk about. >> the only reason why i told the truth then, dr. phil, is because i was in police custody. i was in the safety and security of the police. i had no more reason to fear my father, who hasn't supported me through this at all. >> dr. phil: that's one theory. the other is that you had been busted and rolled over on your co-conspirator. >> you can say that if you want to, dr. phil. >> dr. phil: i'm just asking. i mean, that's -- you're going to be asked these things, right? you know, i'm not asking anything you're not going to be

asked. >> right. there's been a history of abuse. we have it on report. cps was notified about the abuse. >> child protective services. >> right. >> dr. phil: this is what bothers me from a psychological standpoint. you allow your stepmother to be devastated and plan his funeral. >> sir, there was no funeral ever being planned. >> dr. phil: you let her believe he was dead. take funeral off the table. does that bother you? >> absolutely. >> dr. phil: if someone came and told me a family member of mine was dead, i'd be devastated. >> yes. it bothers me a lot. but you have to understand, i had no other choice. i would have died otherwise. he would have killed me, dr. phil, if i didn't do what he was telling me. >> dr. phil: were you worried that you were incurring tens of search and rescue fees and -- n >> i was more worried for my

life. my father would beat me every other weekend, sometimes every weekend, because i was acting out in school or he was drunk. anything would set him off. didn't matter. he always was able to find an excuse. >> i was at jonathan's house almost every day. his father was constantly putting him down. always yelling and screaming at him. you were an accident, you never should have been born. >> he told me a few times, even if we did fight and i won, i would have to fall asleep. he said when i did fall asleep, he would wrap a garden hose around my neck and kill me. >> dr. phil: now, 10:19 that morning, you get an e-mail. the subject line says "help." you will need to help me get my car loaded. get your blank ass out of bed. you got that from your father. did he talk to you like that every day? >> every minute of every day.

he would never talk to me. it was more of him talking at me. demanding from me. >> dr. phil: you got another e-mail, same day earlier. subject line "business." jonathan, there needs to be a way for me to find out how things are going. call me sunday night at 8:00 p.m. at the resort. gives the number. you cannot call from your phone. go to a pay phone or borrow your friend's phone. you have to called me within 15 minutes in order to be sure i'll be available. that sounds pretty plan-full. few minutes later, subject line, going the distance. hey, number 1, don't forget to get the ball from your friend. i need to get to the bank for cash for a trip about the jewelry we spoke of yesterday. you need to whisper in aunt jackie's ear about it and don't worry. she will get it. lawyers, be sure to get uncle bob to follow up. do not allow that blank to give

the house away. uncle bob's papers. tell uncle bob i handed you the lawyer's papers and you noticed there was an envelope with uncle bob's name on it. hand it to him all with the paperwork. this is really worked out in detail. >> who is it coming from? >> dr. phil: looks to me like it's coming from his father. >> okay. >> dr. phil: did you get the e-mail? >> i did receive the e-mail. >> dr. phil: so you got the three e-mails. >> yes. >> dr. phil: but you didn't respond to them? >> correct. >> dr. phil: because at one point you denied getting the e-mails, right? >> right. >> dr. phil: but you did get them? >> yes. yes, i did. >> dr. phil: did you respond? >> no, dr. phil. >> dr. phil: you can't say what you did. >> right. >> dr. phil: have you talked to your stepmother? >> no, i haven't. >> dr. phil: since this happened? >> no. >> dr. phil: have you apologized in writing or anything for putting her through this? >> no. i tried to get in contact with

her. i have clothing and other articles there of mine. but i can never get in contact. >> dr. phil: but -- >> i don't think she wants to talk to me. >> dr. phil: what would you say to her? >> i would apologize, dr. phil. i am very sorry all of this happened. >> dr. phil: your stepmother has said she's afraid of you. why would she say that? >> afraid of me, dr. phil? >> dr. phil: yes, yes. >> i have never threatened. i never raised my voice to her, dr. phil. so to be afraid of me, i don't know. i really can't answer that question. >> dr. phil: all right. what's going to happen next? is this going to trial? >> there won't be a trial unless there needs to be a trial in the end. >> dr. phil: but your client is cooperating with authorities? >> whatever it is they need, i'm responding to. we'll continue to have a dialogue with them to see what happens in the case. >> dr. phil: what they want is connect this to the insurance fraud, right? >> i think what they want to know is who the mastermind behind this was, how this came

about, how my client got involved in this, what happened with the e-mails. i think they want to find the responsible and culpable part here. >> dr. phil: final comment? >> brian, you need to plead guilty. you should stop telling your client to put mine under the bus to save his life. that's what got him in this problem in the first place. >> your client put himself under the bus. you're going to cooperate with the district attorney, give testimony against my client and i'll be cross examining your client about six months from now when why go to trial. >> that's not true. what we're going to do is what i'm asking you to do, to tell the truth. it's helpful sometimes that the public and -- >> you get your side -- [applause] >> you get your side of the truth, i get my side of the truth. >> and see which side prevails. >> dr. phil: we'll keep a close eye on this situation. brian davis, thanks for joining us today. >> thank you. >> dr. phil: jonathan, thank you. joey -- >> thank you, dr. phil. >> dr. phil: we'll like you to keep us posted on everything going on. all right? [applause]

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[applause] >> dr. phil: jennifer says the

sound of her mother's name makes her physically ill. she says it makes her sick. she refuses to ever repair their relationship. in fact, she told producers that if dr. phil asked me to forgive my mother, i will not speak to him. here's jennifer's version of what happened in her childhood. >> when my sister and i were kids, my mom would hit us with belts, extension cords, whatever was at her reach at that time. my mom abused us. i was hit all the time. my mom had made me feel like the scum of the earth. what angers me about my mom is her mouth. she doesn't know when to shut it. if i could pick and choose what kind of abuse i could take from my mom, i'd let her beat me all day long. but for her to say some of the things she said. my mom told us my dad didn't love us. i'd rather be hit than told that. my mom is mean. i hate her. my mom is a huge manipulator. she tried to keep my son from

her. she got guardianship of my son in 2003 for insurance reasons only. let me make that clear. since then, we've been in and out of court with my mom trying to have them give me my son back. and my mom tried to file a false report against us that we sold meth out of my home, that we're on drugs. my mom has sent me text messages that if i didn't stop the court fight, she would make my son hate me. if i were to find out my mom had passed away, i would do jumping jacks [bleep]. >> dr. phil: jennifer's mother claims she's done nothing wrong and actually points the finger at jennifer for being abusive. >> when my girls were growing up, i was the disciplinarian. i didn't use excessive force. from the time she turned 13, the relationship was strained and has remained strained until this day. jennifer despises me. she slugged me in the ear,

busted my ear open. the school advisors said if you don't get a handle on that child, she could kill you. she threatened to kill my in front of a deputy. they handcuffed her and took her to juvenile hall. it's been a year since i've had a civil conversation with jennifer. whatever conversation we've had has been mediated with a judge or an attorney. i didn't do anything to jennifer to warrant the hatred and the venom. i don't think i deserve that. >> dr. phil: so what is the problem here? >> i just hate her. >> dr. phil: you say you hate her more than you have ever hated anyone in your life. >> yeah. >> dr. phil: what did she do with your son? >> i gave her guardianship of my son in 2001 for insurance reasons. >> dr. phil: meaning? >> so he could be covered up her health insurance. i was stupid, got married. in order for my son to stay on insurance, she said he needed to

be hers, the guardian. >> dr. phil: this was a paper transaction that did not affect the parent/child relationship other than on paper? >> right. >> dr. phil: then you wanted to undo this. >> every time i asked for my son back, it was you're in a two bedroom -- >> dr. phil: once you're saying once she got him on paper -- >> she ran with it. >> dr. phil: she said okay, you don't get him back. >> it was her way to control me. >> dr. phil: is that what happened? have you denied her right to take back control of her son? >> i didn't deny her anything. it was part of the guardianship that when jennifer was ready to take michael back, that she needed to be able to have a job, be able to insure him and be able to take full responsibility of him back. >> dr. phil: did you tell her that if she didn't stop these court actions to try to get him back that you would turn her son against her? >> i did not tell her that. >> dr. phil: so what is going on here? who has control of the son now?

>> she does. >> dr. phil: and how do you feel about that? >> i'm okay with that. i have issues because she hasn't called me since he left. >> dr. phil: she says from the time she was 7 or 8 years old, you made her feel like "the scum of the earth." >> she would have to give me an example, dr. phil. i have two daughters. fed, clothed, taking care of, nurtured, loved and disciplined. and they're opposite of each other. >> dr. phil: did you beat these children? >> nope. >> dr. phil: did you beat her with a belt? >> i used a belt in -- i can't exactly tell you how many times. but i did use a belt when they were little. >> dr. phil: so how did she make you feel like scum of the earth? >> my sister gets everything.

i understand i'm different from my sister. my sister is more proper, like my mom says jump, she says how high. i'm not going to jump for her. that's why she doesn't like me. my sister should be out here. she wrote the show. i didn't want to come. >> dr. phil: why are you here? >> because i wait every day for somebody to call and tell me that my mom is gone. and i don't want to feel that way anymore. i don't want to forgive her. i don't want a relationship with her. but if i do get that phone call that my mom has passed away, i don't want to bleep on her grave. i don't want to say, okay, my mom is gone. i don't want to be jumping for joy. but i feel that way. you make me feel that way. >> dr. phil: she's not the only family member that jennifer turned her back on. we'll find out why she blocked her sister's number from her phone as well.

we'll be right back. >> you are spiteful, you are hateful and you are mean. i'm done. >> announcer: tomorrow on a dr. phil exclusive. >> dr. phil: did you kill your wife? >> of course not. a weird thing for you to ask. >> announcer: dr. phil goes inside the mind of robert blake. that's tomorrow. [ female announcer ] with the 2-in-1 swiffer sweeper,

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[applause] >> dr. phil: jennifer says she's fed up with her sister's taking her mother's side.

she hasn't spoken to her in four months. take a look. >> my family is in pieces. >> we went out to dinner and let her know i called dps on mom. my sister was itching to get out of that restaurant to get on the phone with my mom. that goes to show how my sister and mom work together. >> jennifer feels i betrayed her. i love my sister. i miss her a lot. >> my sister is a cry-baby. >> dr. phil: okay. you guys haven't talked for four months? >> no. i haven't talked to my sister since we sat and i told her i called dps. >> i invite you to my graduation. i invite her. you know what they did? they sent my graduation invitation back. returned to center. >> do you know why? that's what you wanted. your graduation was in june. you're sitting here telling him you want nothing from us.

that conversation happened may 9th. >> i don't want anything from you. you turn around and send a card? >> because -- >> let me tell you what my thought process is. no matter how much i hate her or hate you or hate anybody, every parent deserves to either watch their kid get married, go to their graduation, do whatever. she didn't have to come and give me a hug. she could have sat in the back. i gave her that opportunity no matter how mad i am at her. that's why that got sent to you guys. >> because you both deserved it. >> no parent deserves to be disrespected -- >> and no daughter deserves -- >> you are spiteful and hateful and mean. and this is your last horah, to come on television. that's what i wrote to you, to help them. i don't care one way or another. i want to help them.

i don't want you to pass away and her regret not saying something to you. >> but that's okay -- >> but for her to pass away and you go [bleep] on her grave as if i would even let you know where she was at. you are mean. mom deserves to know what she did to you when you were 7 or 8. >> how do you write a letter to dr. phil and still act like a [bleep] up until tuesday when dr. phil called and said can you come to the show? and now all of a sudden you want to fix stuff. >> who is acting like anything? we haven't spoken. >> you -- >> dr. phil: okay, okay. everybody stop. one thing that i know is that when somebody is gone, they're gone for a long time. she should have never let the sunset another time without saying or doing the things that

you need to say and do. whatever they may be. if somebody did happen to her and you were left with that bitterness and resentment that you would have to live with it the rest of your life. you don't get a do-over. you feel like you have been betrayed to the ultimate degree. it's like my god, how do you ever trust somebody that tried to steal your child. >> nobody tried to steal michael. >> dr. phil: i understand. if somebody tried to kidnap your child from the yard, how would you feel about them? let's figure out how many different ways to beat this guy to death. that's how you would feel, right? and her perception is that there has been a protracted strategy of alienation of your son from you. true? >> yes. >> dr. phil: if that's what she believes, would you expect her to feel any other way? >> no. she's entitled to her feelings. >> dr. phil: wouldn't you feel that way if you believed that in fact was done to you? >> yes.

>> dr. phil: and you would too. anybody would. do you have your son back? >> yes. >> dr. phil: and he's with you? and you love him? >> very much. >> dr. phil: and he loves you. >> very much. >> dr. phil: so that is intact. right? so you're just saying, yeah, it's in tact in spite of what she did, right? you survived it. you got through it. >> it was a fight and the fight of my life but i did it. >> dr. phil: the fight of your life. one you feel like you shouldn't have to fight. >> i shouldn't have. >> dr. phil: let me tell you the problem with this, just so you know. you're not going to like this. that's okay. >> okay. >> dr. phil: and you're going to deny some of it but you're wrong. >> do you have a kleenex? >> dr. phil: i don't have a kleenex but -- >> i'll take that. >> dr. phil: you give her that 1 back. >> i asked for one. >> dr. phil: you're going to dance on her grave. i don't want you sharing her snot. [laughter]

here's what i'm saying in all seriousness. when you feel the way you feel towards your mother, it changes who you are in every relationship you have. your son doesn't get all of who you are. your sister doesn't get all who you are. your friends don't get all of who you are and you don't get all of who you are. it's really contradictory because the person you say you want the least to do with you are investing the most power in. >> i don't want to do that. >> dr. phil: she has the power to change your life. why give her that power if you feel so badly about her? you've got to take your power back. every situation needs a hero. let it be you. believe me when i tell you that there is your version of what happened, there's her version of what happened, there's her version of what happened and then there's what really happened. >> uh-huh. >> dr. phil: because it's all seen through filters. you see it through a defensive

filter. you're ready to -- you're going to fought them off, right? >> i'm always defensive. >> dr. phil: and she's the ultimate matriarch here. she's going to protect everybody. >> she hasn't protected me. >> dr. phil: i understand. that's your perception. that's your reality. so i -- you know, you're a peace maker. you want everybody to be happy, right? >> dr. phil: what you want to say? >> she says i don't protect her. i've been the one that has been there when she's down and needed a handout without any reservation. without any stipulation. and unconditionally. whether she hit me, yelled at me, she called me out of my name. i've always been there for her. and i love her. but i don't like who she is. >> i want completely out. >> dr. phil: you're still angry and bitter every day then you

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>> if you're going to be in the los angeles area and you'd like free tickets, go to drphil.com and click on be in the audience. >> dr. phil: or call 323-461-phil. [applause] >> dr. phil: is it a goal to find a way for the three of you, forget everybody else, for the

three of you to find some peace in your life and relationship? is that a goal? >> it's a goal for me. >> yes. >> dr. phil: okay. would you want that? >> no. >> dr. phil: so you want nothing to do with them? so you want out? >> i want completely out. >> dr. phil: okay. that means you're going to withdraw your feelings, right? if you really want out, you have no unfinished emotional business. you can let it go. you can give yourself permission to be peaceful. if you're still angry and bitter every day, you haven't let it go. >> i don't want to hate my mom. >> dr. phil: so you don't want what i'm saying. you said you don't but you do. >> i do. i'm sorry that i'm hurting my mom. >> dr. phil: okay. then because there is a way to work through this. i will guide this, i will get you guys some help to do this. but if you don't have the goal, then you'll never get there. we have to stop for today.

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>> dr. phil: i want to thank all of my guests today. you can go to drphil.com. we'll have more information about everything we talked about there. you can find us on twitter, find us on facebook. we have some great conversations on there about what happened on the show today. and a lot of times i pop in on those conversations. maybe i'll see you there. thanks for being here today. so long. [applause]

this is 9news now. >> we begin tonight with breaking news in northwest washington about a shooting at coolidge high school. >> we're told this happened near a road that runs between the school and its football field. >> matt jablow joins us live from the scene with more on what we know at this point. matt, we know you just got there. >> reporter: d.c. police just wrapped up a press conference. it all started earlier today

here at coolidge high school in northwest washington where two students got into some type of a fight or argument. one of the students then left the building and came back when school let out for the day at 3:15. he then found, according to police, the student whom he had been fighting with and shot him at least once in the leg just outside the school. not inside the school. outside the school on scoot property. the suspect was quickly arrested. a gun was recovered. the victim was taken to a local hospital with what are described as nonlife threatening injuries. police recovered a weapon and they are not looking for anymore suspects. the school, for a brief time, was on lockdown. once they realized they had everybody in custody who was responsible for the shooting, the students were let out for the day. now back to you guys in the studio. metro meantime keeping a close eye on its trains after power problems made thousands of commuters late for work this morning. >> metro doest